Make Rebecca Great Again

Dimple    00:00:00    

Just a quick heads up that these are adults having adult conversations about things that take place on a show where the adults use a lot of adult language, all this to say, there might be some salty language ahead. So please plan accordingly.  

Ted Lasso clip

Speaker 1    00:00:11    Go on. Say what you gonna say. Don't read it. Say it in my face.  

Speaker 2    00:00:25    The great Roy Kent, you're old now and slow and your focus drifts, but your speed and your smarts are never what made you who you are. It's your anger. That's your superpower. That's what made you one of the best midfielders in the history of this league, but I haven't seen it on the pitch at all this season, Roy, I mean, you used to run like you were angry at the grass and you'd kick the ball like you caught it fucking your wife for Christ’s sake, but that anger doesn't come out anymore when you play, but it's still in there and I'm afraid of what it's gonna do to you if you just keep it all to yourself.  

Dimple    00:01:10    

What would Ted Lasso do? This is a question that we explore in each episode of this podcast, we take the lessons we learn from Ted Lasso and we apply them to the real world through the lens of leadership and positive psychology. My name is Dimple Dhabalia,  

Jeff    00:01:24    

And my name is Jeff Harry. And neither of us have ever recorded a podcast. But as Ted Lasso says, taking on a challenge is a lot like riding a horse. If you're comfortable while you're doing it, you're probably doing it wrong.  

Dimple    00:01:38    

We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we enjoyed making it. And that it helps you find new ways to believe  

Jeff    00:01:53    

And make Rebecca great again. Let's talk about it.  

Dimple    00:02:01    

Alright. So we are talking about,  

Jeff    00:02:03    

I love that title. I actually remembered the title of this episode. Usually I don't even notice the title. You're the one that notices, but today I was like, Ooh, wait a minute. This title is relevant.  

Dimple    00:02:13    

Yeah, it's awesome. So this episode was written by Joe Kelly and Brendan Hunt, which is always interesting to me. Cause it's such a, like, especially when you're looking at like female friendships and stuff to have it written by  

Jeff    00:02:23    

Who, who are the writers? I don't know who these writers  

Dimple    00:02:26    

Joe Kelly, he, Brendan Hunt and Jason Sudeikis actually created this show and he, I think created like Scrubs and stuff like that. Oh. And then Brendan Hunt is Coach Beard basically.  

Jeff    00:02:37    

Oh, Coach Beard. Oh  

Dimple    00:02:38    

Yeah. Yeah. I guess let's jump in. What, uh,  

Jeff    00:02:41    

Well the idea of make Rebecca great again, by the end, I actually kind of like Rebecca, you know, like this is the, so does the team, there's a certain level of attunement, but I can get into that later. What I love to start off with is like the evolution again, like with each episode, people kind of transform. So if you think about it, Nate the great at the beginning is telling someone what to do, you know, he's in charge. He's like, you don't do it that way. So you're thinking like, oh, Nate's stepping up. He's like, you know, becoming a big deal. And then he gets shoved into the bus and you're like, oh yes, Nate is still under the bus. Nate is still, Nate is still Nate. Still Nate. And that is how it starts off. And I'm like, Ooh, this is interesting. You know, the symbolism of him being under the bus.  

Dimple    00:03:39    

I hadn't even thought about that, but you're right. Like I did see this as kind of a turning point for Nate. I noticed that right up front too, where he seems more confident as he's telling him no, no, no, you can't put the bags in that way, but I didn't even think about it as like, he's still kinda under the bus. That's actually a really, uh, interesting way to look at it for sure.  

Jeff    00:03:59    

And then Ted is the one that has to eventually pull him outta the bus. Again, again. Um, and, and maybe this is what comes up for me is like maybe each of us, ah, maybe each of us partly put ourselves under the bus. We partly put ourselves in certain situations because I mean, this is kind of going further ahead, but I'll come back, is her friend Flo at one point calls calls out, uh, uh, Rebecca later on in the episode to be like, listen, you gotta take responsibility for your choices. Like, yes, crappy things have happened to you. And also, so it's interesting how, like, I wonder how each character during that episode put themselves in a certain situation and then had to get themselves outta that situation.  

Dimple    00:04:52    

Yeah. So for me, like looking at the episode as a whole, like the, the overarching theme for me was overcoming limiting beliefs. Like to me, that's what this episode was about. Right. And so to your point about each of us putting ourselves under the bus, like when we have those limiting beliefs that hold us back, we are kind of putting ourselves, you know, under the bus to say, but in this case, you know, there was the limiting beliefs that the team had about themselves, which we can dig into, uh, the limiting beliefs that Ted had around his divorce. So feeling like he was quitting something, and we saw that in the Tan Lines, at the end of the Tan Lines episode, where he says, you know, I've never quit anything in my life. And so he has this limiting belief around what it means in terms of his ability to be a father, if he gets divorced. And then we have the limiting beliefs that Rebecca had. Right. So from the very beginning, as she's looking at like those advert, or like, whatever, those invitations on her email for, like, it's your, it's your anniversary weekend or whatever. And so about like being like herself and be, you know, her belief in whether she can really truly be herself. Um, and still be this beautiful and sexy woman after everything that Rupert has said and done to her. And so those were like her limiting beliefs as well. And so like I thought that was really like the overarching, throughout the entire episode was very much about that.  

Jeff    00:06:19    

That's a very good point. And I think of like part of that theme is what do I need? Each of them have to go through their own process of what do I need to break that limiting belief, right? I mean, heck even Keely. And this is early in the episode where it's just like, she's on the TV and she's like, who is that? And she's like, that's the past. We're not watching that anymore. You know, there's even a sentence that said at one point where it's just like, oh, and this is maybe later on the episode, sorry I’m skipping ahead. But like even Rebecca says at one point that was yesterday, this like this idea of like, yes it was,  

Dimple    00:06:59    

We can move forward.  

Jeff    00:07:00    

That was part of me. I'm not running away from it. I'm not running away from the fact that that was me. And also I'm more than that. It's just, Ooh, wee! So like early in the episode, well, first off you see Ted more vulnerable in this episode, than I've seen him in a while. Right. But then when he walks in and the team is miserable, I thought they were miserable because they had lost Jamie, but they were, they were miserable because they hadn't won in 60 years in this one stadium. So it was like, Ooh, interesting. And, and what was interesting about that whole meeting? And I feel like I've seen this at meetings with people is he's just like, well, what's up, what's the reason what's wrong? Why is everyone down? And they're like,  

Dimple    00:07:47    

We're fine.  

Jeff    00:07:49    

Yeah. We're fine. How many times have you been at that meeting where it's just like, no, it's no big deal. You know? And he is just like, no, I really wanna know. And then they still won't say until Roy is just like, this is the freaking reason. And it's just like, Ooh. And how many times have we, especially at meetings, not pushed to find out the truth because we don't wanna feel uncomfortable. I love that. I love that. Now, all of Ted's hard work has put them in a situation where now it's safe enough for them to actually share this. Another thing that they haven't gotten open.  

Dimple    00:08:26    

Well, yeah. To an extent though. Right. So I thought there was two great examples. Like you were talking about how you work to create psychological safety. I know that's a lot of the work that I do too, but I felt like there was two great examples in here to show that they're moving in that direction, but they’re not quite there. And so one was this exact thing where, when he initially asks, you know, you've got Sam saying, uh, you know, we're fine, you've got Isaac saying, I'm good. And it's not until Roy again, stepping into that leadership role says, no, we're not like this is what's happening. Right. But the other point in which we see that is when they’re  at movie night and Ted asked Nate for his opinion. Right. And I thought that was such an incredible example because when we're talking about psychological safety, it's exactly that, that I can say what I think and express my opinion. And I'm not gonna be penalized for it or looked upon differently or whatever. And Nate, like verbalizes exactly what people are often thinking in those situations. Right. Like, you know, when he says, well, do you have an opinion? Is it ready to go? Well, yes. Yes. Okay. So tell me no. Well, why not? Well, because I, you know, like, I don't want you to think that it's stupid and then you'll, you'll fire me and then like, I'll have to go home and people will, uh, judge me or I don't remember exactly what he said until my face melts off.  

Jeff    00:09:43    

You'll fire me. I'll move back in with my parents. And then my face will melt. I have to go, then he leaves.  

Dimple    00:09:51    

Yeah. And so he's still not a hundred percent there, you know, in terms of feeling like he, you know, and, and that makes sense. And that, I really like that, because it's not this instant, like, okay, Ted's been here. So now everybody's comfortable. It's, it's the reality of like, it takes time and it takes work to get people into that space where they're gonna be able to say to either disagree with you as a leader or to say like, I, this is what I think, you know, and it's scary to think this because it's gonna make people uncomfortable and upset or whatever.  

Jeff    00:10:24    

Yeah. It it's actually fluid. Right? Like sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, and I don't think you ever are a hundred percent. And I feel like a lot of people think they have to be a hundred percent in order to have those conversations and it's not like you build trust and then you always have it. It goes in ebbs and flows. So yeah. Yes. I agree. Wholeheartedly. And then when they, okay, they're like, okay, we're gonna get on the bus and they still are not bought in. They're like, well we're gonna win. And he is just like, yeah, like we,  

Dimple    00:11:00    

Everybody get on the bus.  

Jeff    00:11:01    

I mean, it's just like, we're just gonna get on the bus. Right. And then as he's talking to the reporters  

Dimple    00:11:06    

And actually, sorry, real quick though, he doesn't say we're gonna win. He says that unless you have a crystal ball, we don't know what's gonna happen. This is why we play the game. Right. And I think, think that that's actually really good too, because so often like the stress that we create for ourselves and the issues that we have are built on these, again, going back to a few episodes ago, we talked about the storytelling, right. The story I tell myself is, and so for the story I'm telling myself is, and so, yeah, we don't know what's gonna happen in the future. So yeah. You know what they've lost for 60 years, but guess what? This is a new game. Right. It's another opportunity to try. And so if we go in and this is where, this is where it clicked for me in terms of the limiting beliefs, I was like, oh, like they're already walking into it, believing that they can't win.  

Jeff    00:11:55    

That reminds me then, because then when he goes out to the reporters, they also are telling the same story. Like, Hey, are you worried about relegation? Hey, are you worried about Jamie Tartt? I heard this quote recently where it's just like, you know, what is it all you have is the present. But a lot of like suffering, I don't know if it's just like you have anxiety about the future and you have regrets about the past. And like the reporters are constantly telling coaches and players about their future and their past what you should worry about in, for the future, what mistakes you made in the past and Ted’s trying to be in the moment. And he is just like, I don't even know what relegation is. You know, and yes, I have a really great connection with Jamie Tartt and also that's so sad and I feel those feelings and now I'm ready to go to Liverpool. And they're like, well, you didn't answer my question, absolving us of our anxiety because we have all these worries that we are now placing on you. And it's like, oh, interesting. The more you can actually stay present, the more you can actually help others to stay present.  

Dimple    00:13:05    

Yeah. And it is. And, and they always say the present is a gift. Right. I know what I loved about that conversation with the reporter too, when he talks about Jamie, it just made me feel like when I think about like some of the best leaders that I've had, you know, that I've either worked for or worked with, like, I love what he says about like one of the neatest things about being a coach is the connection you make with your players. I think like that's just leadership in general, right? Like if you're leading a team or whatever, to me also, like I know a lot of leaders that are burned out because of the work, right. The workload, the expectations, all that stuff. And so they don't often get to, or feel like they can prioritize creating that connection. Right. Because it's all about the bottom line. And like, but that connection is so fundamental and, and the leaders who really love leading, I think it's because they're able to, to make that connection and to foster it and to really grow it. And I just, I, I love that it was just such a little thing in there, but, 

Jeff    00:14:06    

I feel like the best leaders are the ones that like humans, you know? Like not only like humans, but you're curious about humans, like you want to grow for growing’s sake. Like one of the best leaders I worked with was a former colleague, Lauren Yee and she was just fascinated by people. And she was fascinated with her staff and how they can improve, not for her, but improve just for themselves and how she could actually help them with that. That's the part that I feel is really powerful about Ted Lasso the whole time, you know, he's not doing it for him, like he's not doing it so that he looks good. He's doing it because he actually cares. So when he's saying that to that one reporter, that reporter is like, I don't understand, like, I don't understand what you're saying, because this doesn't make sense to me because this is not about you winning. This is not the normal way in which we talk about soccer or football.  

Dimple    00:15:12    

Yeah, that’s so funny you just said that. It reminds me, I was just listening to have you listened to the SmartLess podcast with, uh, it's Jason Bateman, Will Arnett and Sean Hayes. And it cracks me up. They interviewed Brendan Shanahan I think is his name. He's the president of the Toronto Maple Leafs. And he said almost the exact same thing you just said which was, at a point in his career, it would've been all about getting the accolades and getting people to notice like what he's done to get the recognition and stuff like that. And I don't know if it comes with like age or, and I don't mean like getting old, but like experience or whatever, where it gets to the point where it's no longer about that. You know, it's about wanting to, again, going back to that, through line of Ted, like wanting to help people be the best versions of themselves and doing this because it comes from like somewhere within you in wanting to like, help do that, you know? And I just thought that was really neat, because I haven't heard a lot of people, especially in, in the sports, uh, realm. Uh, and I'm sure there are others who, who think that way, but  

Jeff    00:16:16    

I might have mentioned this before, but John Wooden, the most winningest coach in college basketball, never talked about winning. Like he just didn’t. Like, that was not the thing. They could win by 20 and he'd be pissed off at them because like they didn't live up to their potential so I'm like, I'm fascinated. Yes. That is,

Dimple    00:16:36    

And he he's one of the inspirations for this show. Right. Like, cause I think was he the one who did the pyramid?  

Jeff    00:16:42    

Maybe. Yeah, maybe.  

Dimple    00:16:43    

I wanna say in episode one, when they're putting all that stuff up, there is something from John Wooden. I think, I wanna say it's the pyramid of success, but I could be wrong, I'll have to go back and look, but he definitely, I know other interviews  

Jeff    00:16:56    

Pyramid of Success by John Wooden

Dimple    00:16:58    

Is that right? And I've heard like in other interviews and stuff like that where they've talked about him. So yeah. You're absolutely right. The other thing I was, I thought was interesting. So this idea of overcoming limiting beliefs, there's two things that really, to me like played into helping each, you know, each of these, uh, whether it's the team or Ted or Rebecca or even Keely like moved past it. So when I was in my last position, um, we created what we called collective commitments. And so these were like kind of operating agreements that we were all gonna agree to abide by. And so one of them was something called radical responsibility and the other one was something called courageous communication. So radical responsibility is it's this idea that we take ownership of our lives. So instead of blaming other people for our circumstances, our emotions, how we react, like we take responsibility and then courageous communication obviously is like being able to, to say what you need to say. And it doesn't have to be harsh or mean or anything like that. But it's direct like Brene Brown always talks about direct is kind. I thought like the scene with Nate really does a beautiful job of bringing both of those things together to help the team overcome their limiting beliefs. Right? So first of all, that was amazing that it's like such a big game for them. People are just already despondent and Ted's like, Nope, you're gonna do the pregame talk. Cause he knows that Nate has been there longer than anybody. He knows these guys inside and out, he knows what their strengths are. He knows what their weaknesses are. And it makes sense for him to call in, call those things out because Ted hasn't been there long enough to say that with any great, you know, where people are gonna really believe that he would know what it is. Right. And Nate, like as he walks through each thing, you know, like he with Isaac and Sam and Colin, and Dani, and like you start to see that number one, it takes a lot of courage to say what he's saying, but it's forcing these guys to really stop and take responsibility. Because when Roy initially mentioned in the locker room, like, oh, we, you know, we're in a bad mood because we always lose da da. It's like this thing that's out there, right? Like, oh we lose, but it's not our fault. Like we lose. Right. And this is like, we're gonna turn the tables and you're gonna look at what it is that you do that maybe you could change and that's what needs to happen. And so I thought that that was incredible because they were all laughing and joking around and stuff until like it came to each of them and then they were like, and Colin's like, wait, what just happened? And then with Roy, like when Roy was like, don't read it, like say it to me, can you imagine being Nate in that situation? And like standing here with this guy who, you know, could kick the crap outta you and yet you say what you need to say. And that was like the, the switch that needed to be turned on for Roy though. Right. Because then it's like that anger that Nate is talking about really comes out and like, when you see like when they come back in after the game, I was like, I kept pausing to look at like what the announcers were saying. And they talk about how he was like a man possessed. And so, you know, his anger was out on the field for everyone to see. And he really leaned into that superpower that Nate called, you know, Nate called his anger, his superpower. I just thought that was like, it was incredible. It's such an incredible use of both of those things to help in that situation. You know,  

Jeff    00:20:26    

I'm looking for that line that he said, oh, I'm afraid what your anger is going to do to you. If you keep it all to yourself. And caused everyone to lean in. And that was like, and maybe that, you know, this kind of ties in with the whole, my whole rediscover your play. Right. Rediscover you type of thing is I feel what Nate did was remind them a part of who they are like that I see you. And I see, you know, I see that you're, you're pretending to be a Brazilian, you know, I see that you’re pretending to be tough. I see that you're pretending to be angry, but not really angry, which is actually interesting because I kind of connected to Flo, Sassy, because Sassy's also a reminder to Rebecca of who she used to be. Yeah. So I feel like with the theme, as well as the limiting belief theme is the theme of, um, remember who you are.  

Dimple    00:21:24    

Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. because she even says that to Keely like, oh this isn't Rebecca. Like if you like this woman you'll love the real Rebecca.

Jeff    00:21:31    

You'll love Rebecca.  

Dimple    00:21:32    

What was interesting about the discussion between Sassy and Rebecca outside when they were smoking is it, I had to like stop and think about it because there's like, I think a very fine line between this idea of taking personal responsibility, a radical responsibility and kind of victim blaming. Right. So like we've already talked about in past discussions that it's very clear that Rebecca was in an abusive relationship. Right. Like at least emotionally abusive, probably not physical that we know of. Right. So, but there's some real, like I think nuances. Cause initially I was like, I don't know, like she's telling her, like she made these choices and da, da da with radical responsibility. Like we're, we're taking kind of, it's like empowering, right. We get to take ownership and it's not like the other person gets to do something to us, but we get to take ownership of like what we want. And so a lot of times, if you just try to get a person to take responsibility, it might feel like you're blaming them rather than, uh, empowering them. What Sassy does so well though, is she, along with actually, calling Rebecca out, she validates that the things that Rupert did. So it's not just that Rebecca made these choices or whatever, she validates that. Yeah. You know what, he created this Ivory Tower, he kept you up there and you took every step to, to make your way up there. Right. And so it's, it's this idea of like personal responsibility, but then there's also this sense of agency. And I thought like it's such a nuance. Like I think that most, like I said, I had to like stop and rewatch it a couple of times to really think it through. Cause I was like, I dunno, it's kinda on the line, but it's actually really brilliant the way that they wrote it.  

Jeff    00:23:20    

Oh, I was just gonna say, well Flo, it also created a safe space by simply showing up. Because like, if you have not, not seen your friend for six years and not heard from her at all, and has had to console her daughter because she hasn't heard from her friend and then she just comes up and she doesn't judge her or mention any of this stuff for like the first day and a half that they're together. Like that's already creating a safe space already. So by the time she finally brings that up, only Flo could have brought that up. Anyone else,

Dimple    00:23:58    

And she didn't bring it up. She didn't bring it up initially. Cause Rebecca, Rebecca says, I'm really sorry. And then she's says, thank you for saying that. And then she like goes into it. So yeah. Yeah. That takes a lot to hold that back.  

Jeff    00:24:11    

That takes a lot because that's a lot of patience and that's not on Flo's time. Like Flo didn't come and then was like, apologize. Imagine if she just rolled in and was just like, you need to apologize to me after you haven't spoken to me in six years, she doesn't do that. She just like goes back to how they used to be. And then even kinda hooks her up with the waiter guys. She's even doing a little stuff for her, but then going back to earlier with like make Rebecca great again and make any of those guys great again, this, oh, I was trying to think of what was it? It was something about, it was almost like make Roy great again because he then finally remembers who he is. And then that is when actually he starts to be much more forthright with Keely because now he kind of knows, you know, who he is to the point that he even knows when he's like about to hook up with Keely that it's like, that's not what I wanna do, you know? Like I would respect her and her, you know, at her boundaries and do what you know, and I love that. It's fascinating how, when you remind someone of who they are and then they start doing the thing that reminds themselves of who they are, then they start doing the things that are who they are.  

Dimple    00:25:29    

Exactly. Yeah. And it is it's, it's amazing. Right. So she at the restaurant Rebecca's like, oh, I don't smoke anymore. But she wanted to. Right. So when she went out with sassy, like she was feeling like herself again, she hadn't sang in a long time. She gets up and like belts out. That was one of the funniest things, like when she starts singing, they panned over to, uh, or they cut over to, um, Coach Beard and Keely. And both are like this, Coach Beard's eyes are like huge and Keely's just got her jaw open. Like it's the funniest, um, reaction. But, uh, yeah. You know, and so she's really starting to remember who she is and I, I think you're right. Like it's, it's called make Rebecca great again, but I think it could be applied to any of them in the episode. Right. Like it's make all of them great again, you know, I think a lot of times with women, it's interesting because you've got like your close knit group of friends and those are like your ride or die friends. Like you'll do anything for them. But then you see like within that, there's a lot of not holding other women up if they're not in that space with you. Right. And I think it's getting better, but what was interesting to me was like, number one, watching Keely through this whole exchange because never once did I feel like she felt threatened, oh, like I'm friends with Rebecca now who's this woman coming in like right. She embraced Sassy right up front and was just like, I love you, you know? And all the hugs and, and whatever. But the other thing it reminded me of, especially between Sassy and Rebecca is I have a handful of friends with whom we have what we call no guilt friendships. And what I love about that is with these friends, like I know that I can say or do anything or I could have time to go by and not reach out. And it, they're never gonna come back and hold that against me, and I think it's such a rare gift to have a no guilt friendship like that. And I, I really felt like that's what they had in that, um, in that space. And it's not just, uh, Rebecca and Sassy, but you start to see Keely starting to fit into that as well. And it's just such a beautiful depiction of, of female friendship. Like I, I really love watching them kind of grow throughout, you know, the, the show  

Jeff    00:27:46    

And even when Keely at the end is just like, what are we gonna abandon me? I have abandoned  

Dimple    00:27:51    

I just realized I have abandonment issues. Yeah. It's uh, it's amazing. So just real quick, like, um, you know, there's always like the, the different cultural references and stuff in the show, but the song that Rebecca sings, ‘Let It Go’ from ‘Frozen’. So, um, first of all, it's hilarious cuz Roy, I don't know if you catch it, but he's like mouthing the words as she's singing. 

Jeff    00:28:17    

Oh, I didn't know that. Oh wow. He is. I just thought he’s working in the back, but that's so interesting. And also the idea of ‘Let It Go’, right. Limiting beliefs, letting these limiting beliefs go. Very on the nose.

Dimple    00:28:33    

It is, but you don't know like it's subtle, but on the nose. Right. Right. And so I saw this interview that, um, Brett Goldstein and Hannah Waddingham did, and they're watching the scene and they're kind talking about what they were doing and stuff like that. And she said that they took eight hours to film that and she sang it live every time because she knew that Jason was like going through like the panic attack and she didn't want him having to do that to play back. So first of all, she did it live every time, which is incredible, but she did not wanna sing that cuz she's a professional singer too. And she's like, I've always tried to stay away from that song. And so, but Jason Sudeikis was like really adamant about it. So I started looking cause I, I always keep the subtitles on now as, so I'm watching and if you are watching like what he's starting to go through and you're looking at the words that she's singing, it's like crazy, like how it all matches up. Like it’s, it's really amazing. Like cuz the lyrics of that song, like I didn't, I didn't really listen. Like I haven't seen Frozen, but I know tons of people have and Brent was talking, um, Roy was talking about how he would be singing along because he's got this niece who he watches the movie with all the time. Right. And so, but yeah, so like the lyrics are like, don't let them in, don't let them see and be a good girl you always have to be. But you know, that could apply to Ted. Conceal, don't feel don't let them know. And then while now they know and then let it go, can't hold back anymore. It's amazing. Like again, the music in this show is definitely like an additional character that just adds so much. So maybe I, I really wanna talk about Ted's panic attack, ‘cos that’s another one that I think is just, uh, so phenomenal. Um, first of all, just the acting like it's can a hundred percent see why Jason Sudeikis keeps winning awards, you know, his ability to really portray that in a way that I know that I've heard other people talk about what their experience has been. And he just is amazing at this, this particular area is one that is one that I work on a lot. So all through the pandemic, I, um, taught workshops on navigating through stress crisis and, and uh, trauma. So for me like this mind, body connection piece is phenomenal. And I think the show has done such a good job of bringing it all together. And so you, you know, in this show we see like we know that with, um, with panic attacks, like it's very much like a, a reaction. So like when our stress reaction is activated, we go through this entire like cycle of conditioned reactions. Right. And so as soon as we're triggered and our stress, like it's different for people depending on what's happened in your life and what you've experienced, it creates the lens through which we experience the world. Right. So something that may be kind of stressful to you might be anxiety inducing for me. Right. And so whenever that stress reaction though gets activated, it immediately shows up in the body in some way. So in some kind of either body sensation. So if you think about things like butterflies in the stomach or the, the increased heart rate and in Ted's case, we definitely see that when he has his panic attack, like the, you know, where he can't breathe and, and all that, but his tell is his hands. Right. So we see that he starts like wiggling his fingers and that's assigned to is like numbness or tingling in the fingers. We'd see it more pronounced here, but we've seen it in other episodes. Right? Like the first day that he and Beard go out on the pitch, he's kind of playing with his fingers and, and Beard says, are you okay? And he puts his hands in his pockets. Yeah. And so one of the things about this, like cycle of conditioned reactions is you wanna break this cycle. And so a lot of what we talk about is oftentimes when we're in the space of kind of spinning out in the space of anxiety, we're very much in our heads because that's where all that storytelling is happening and it's, it's perpetuating, that anxiety. And so we wanna get into our bodies as quickly as possible. And so a lot of times we'll tell people, you know, like, you know, when you're in that space, just say to yourself, feel my feet and like bring your, all your attention to your feet or, you know, something that's sensory so that you, yeah, you’re grounding. Exactly. But the thing I really loved about this portrayal was also with this idea of co-regulation right? So with anxiety, it's very much about our nervous system. So it's our sympathetic nervous system, which is what we call like the gas pedal of the body, right? So this is meant to protect us, right? It's the part of our body, that's our fight or flight system. And really we need it when we're in danger. But the problem is the kind of danger that we face these days is often more based in our ego or sense of identity rather than physical anymore. And so our gas pedal stays pressed down a lot longer than it really should be. And the problem with that is obviously like there's all kinds of stress hormones going through the body and things like that. And so what I love about this though, is, uh, Rebecca, when she goes and she puts her hand on his face and she's like, you know, just talking to him in a very calm voice and breathing with him, like it's such a, a great visual example of, of co-regulation. So, you know, we have, in our brains, we have mirror neurons and those are been mirror neurons, like really help us to kind of empathize with people. They, and it's basically, our brain is wired to kind of mimic the emotions or the experiences of the people around us. And so if you've ever like found yourself in a place where you're like super, like, there's just a lot of anxious people around you, you start feeling that too. Right. But on the flip side, we have the ability to help people when they're in this state of panic by using our own nervous system to help them co-regulate. And I just thought they did such a great job of that in terms of like having Rebecca do that so that it started to calm him down in the process as well. And so, anyway, I'm sorry, like I just, this is, uh, I love this stuff. So like, I just think it's so interesting. And I just think the way that they portrayed it is, is incredible.  

Jeff    00:34:47    

Yeah. I mean, tying it to attunement right. Or play action. Yeah. At that point, I feel like she is trying to get attuned with him out in the parking lot, which is fascinating because it's in the direct contrast to a few episodes ago when she is out and she's having that attack and he is there to help her. Like two, the two different, and now their roles have switched. Right? And all this empathetic Rebecca that you have not seen before that you finally saw on stage and now right after she sings, usually when someone sings a great song like that, everyone that wants to just hang out with you. Right. Yeah. Where does she go? She leaves to go check in on Ted because she's like, where, where did he go? And I thought the writing of this was so well done too, because like, this is the, is at the height of her finally stepping into her own. Yeah. And just let that be and just been like, that's a celebratory moment. Rebecca is now finally letting go the team finally letting go, everyone. They could have just showed Ted smiling as well. And being like, listen, I I'm letting go as well, but they didn't go in that corny route. They were like, this is the moment where we're gonna go in direct contrast. And this song that everyone like just loves so much is then taken over by like this anxiety, panic song, you know? And then he like leaves that place. And then he's in the club and he is getting knocked over and I start having like anxiety.  

Dimple    00:36:27    

Yeah, you do.  

Jeff    00:36:28    

And the music. And you're like, uh, so I thought that just was so well done contrast that they went there, even though they didn't have to, they could've chose the easy route, but they didn't, they chose not to  

Dimple    00:36:40    

Yeah. A hundred percent. And to what you're mentioning that, that kinda weird, like ringing in his ears and stuff. That's his other tell. Right. And so at the very first press conference at the very like first episode, there was a little bit of that where he, you, you started to notice that distortion, because we didn't know about his anxiety yet. It just probably like, you know, we went past it the first time we watched or whatever. But, but now that you know that when you go back, you can see like, there's a little bit of that that shows up there too. And so that's definitely his other, the way that it manifests in his body and  

Jeff    00:37:15    

And the angriest I've ever seen Ted in the entire show was this episode when Nate is slipping the paper underneath the door. He's like meanest and rudest he's ever been, to the point that you're like, whoa, who was this guy? You know, where did this come from? And there's something like going back to what your radical honesty and like, you know,  

Dimple    00:37:38    

Responsibility  

Jeff    00:37:39    

And accountability. Right. So he pulls Nate aside, he apologizes to Nate. He owns like, he owns it. He actually owns it. Which I think a lot of, a lot of people, a lot of leaders don't when they apologize, they don't own the accountability. They go through the motions. So why do you think it's different? Why is this, why do you feel there's more accountability with Ted?  

Dimple    00:38:05    

That's a good question. You know, I think like, so not only does he acknowledge like, Hey, you know, I lashed out at you for no reason, but he actually says, sorry, which okay, leaders sometimes will say sorry, but then he did take the extra step and he says, can you forgive me? Or I hope you can forgive me. And like, to me, like that was like, it shows that he, at least to me, it showed that like, oh, he cares enough about what this kid thinks, you know? And he, he wants to know if he can be for like, he hopes he can be forgiven. Whereas I don't know. I sometimes feel like people will go through the motions of saying, Hey, you know, I'm sorry. And then they'll just move on. Right. Yeah. But there isn't that added element of, of forgiveness. And I think forgiveness is really powerful. Like to actually forgive someone. I know that there's a lot of, like, research on this in positive psychology. It's not an area I'm as familiar with, but like there's, there's some real power there in being able to, to actually acknowledge what the person has done to take it in. And then to be again, that theme of let it go, to let it go and move forward.  

Jeff    00:39:11    

I feel the other part that I feel leaders miss out on with owning it or apologizing, and then not following through is the action that you take right after, right? Because a lot of times people are like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for, you know, gaslighting or whatever. Sorry for whatever it is. And then they just continue to do it. But right after he goes, I'm sorry, then he takes that big risk. And it's just like, Hey Nate, you're gonna need the talk against a team who haven’t won in 60 years. And when people are willing to apologize through their actions, meaning like, say the words, but then they follow through with that's where I feel like actual accountability like comes through and  

Dimple    00:39:57    

Yeah, hundred percent  

Jeff    00:39:58    

Over and over again with, with each of them where they're, they're owning it through their actions. Like Rebecca might be trying to destroy the team. But at some point at that point, she like was like, no, I actually care about Ted at all this, all this love and affection, appreciation, all this stuff that Ted's doing, all of the cookies he's made over the last, who knows? I think it's like five or six weeks into the season. Maybe longer. All of a sudden she reciprocates something back.  

Dimple    00:40:31    

Yeah. Like that wall starting to come down.  

Jeff    00:40:34    

Yeah, and I think a lot of times people are like, oh, well I do all this work and nothing ever happens. It's just like, this is what can happen. It builds and builds to the point that when he texts her and thanks her for taking care of him, all of a sudden, she is reminded of like, oh my goodness, the guilt of like, what am I doing?  

Dimple    00:40:54    

He says, thank you for your kindness, not just tonight, but through this whole adventure

Jeff    00:40:58    

Through this whole adve- yeah.

Dimple    00:41:01    

This whole adventure where you've been like, trying to like, screw me over.

Jeff    00:41:05    

Meanwhile, you're giving me cookies and yeah.  

Dimple    00:41:09    

I just wanna contrast that scene real quick. Between the first time he tries to sign his papers and the second time. Right. I think it's really interesting how they create the shots too. So I didn't say this last week, because I forgot, but even in that Allen Iverson scene, uh, like when he is, he's going off on Jamie, they, the shot at one point goes completely sideways and it's like totally off-kilter. And it was a decision. Like it was a very conscious decision because you feel off-kilter seeing him letting loose on someone. Right. And it was the same thing in that first scene where he is trying to sign his papers where the initial shot is just like, it's kind of lopsided and you just see the Jack Daniels bottles and then the, the army men. And what's interesting is the army men also, it's interesting to, to focus in on which ones are where, because in this one, the one that's there is, is lobbing a grenade. And I was like, that's like this, this show is so layered. Like it's crazy. And that's what it probably feels like. Well, I know, like, I, I really felt a lot of empathy as he was going through that. Like I know when I had to sign my divorce papers like many, many years ago, it really, it killed me. Right. And so that feeling of that grenade being flashed, like I was like, yeah, that's, that's actually a pretty good metaphor. And then when we actually see him, like his hair's all messed up and he downs that glass of whiskey, the thing that was weird is like how many times Michelle contacted him in such a short period of time? Like, I was like, you know, he's  

Jeff    00:42:42    

The lawyer, and the lawyer.  

Dimple    00:42:44    

Yeah. And then the lawyer. Right. And I feel like as a lawyer like, I, I paused to look at like what was on the text that the lawyer sent and, you know, and he says that Michelle asked him to reach out, but then he says, good news, exclamation points. I was like, I was like, who says good news, right. About like, Hey, you could just like email me.  

Jeff    00:43:04    

You don't have to fax it.  

Dimple    00:43:05    

And you, yeah. And I was like that and I feel like that's kinda like what tipped him over. And, um, and so,  

Jeff    00:43:13    

So passive aggressive too. Just like,  

Dimple    00:43:16    

Well, and then I was gonna say in the, the second time he actually starts to do it, it's completely different. And so in take two, like he's, you can tell he's approaching it with a clear head. He goes through the motions of signing. He types out his message. And then you see him kind of take a breath. Like it's such a contrast to where he was like, he, he had that panic attack. And it's interesting cuz even with a panic attack, when he's out there sitting on the curb, he initially hears his wife say Ted, and then his son say dad, before he hears Rebecca say Ted. And so clearly like, there's that connection between all of, you know, he's carrying all of that. And it's like through that panic attack and whatever, like he let all of that go, let it go. And now he's in that space mentally where he's like, alright, you know, like I'm gonna do this. And he, he goes through the motions and he does it. And this is another space where they have a beautiful song playing. It's actually one of my favorites it's um, called Strange by Celeste. And so same thing it's, it's like such a haunting song, but as he kind of is looking at himself in the mirror and he kind of smiles. Right. But the words that are playing are, I am still me. You are still you in the same place. And then like, he, he smiles to himself and I just like my God, this, this, they just do such an incredible job. But  

Jeff    00:44:36    

I mean, going back to that part of the first time he was trying to sign it, the going then to the TV and the, the whiskey, the numbing. And I think like a lot of us, actually, a lot of times when we can't handle something, we run to the numbing. Right, you're just hoping like maybe if I watch this television or I do this and then I pass out, like, it'll go away. I related to that, I felt that. I was just like, Ooh, there's so many times when I've just been there and then, then you wake up the next day and then the nightmare is still there. You still haven't faced it.. 

Dimple    00:45:08    

Yeah. And now you feel like crap too.

Jeff    00:45:11    

And now you feel like crap because now it's another day. And now this person's texting again, just being like, Hey, just following up on my last text, you know? So yeah, that part is, uh, surprising to me. The other realization I had was risk taking. Everyone, I mean, there's, it's happening in each episode, but the massive amount of risk taking by everyone in there is huge, right? Nate speaking to the team, Keely and Roy getting together, Rebecca getting together with the waiter, Flo, you know, going to his room, Ted, you know, Ted letting her into the room, Ted, you know, signing the pic each and every one is taking a major risk that is actually reminding them of yeah. Actually who they are. Right. And I think, I feel like that has to be like acknowledged because I think the whole idea of breaking limiting beliefs, isn't just like, oh, I have this limiting belief and now I don't have it anymore. You actually have to go through certain actions to actually persuade yourself. It doesn't exist anymore. And if you don't take the action, then it's just like, you're just, you're just talking to yourself. You know, you're just bullshitting. So yeah, like that idea of like, okay, have my limiting belief, how do I break this limiting belief? Okay. I gotta break the pattern. Oh, I gotta get rooted after I get rooted. Now I have to take an action that, that speaks to me. That motivates me to, you know, whether that's me singing Let It Go in front of the team, and shedding all the professionalism or, you know, that's me signing a document, communicating that, like it's over something.  

Dimple    00:47:00    

Yeah. Yeah. And so there's that sense of agency that we were talking about. Right. And like I have agency in my life and to go back to like how layered this movie is, movie night, the team is watching the movie, The Iron Giant. Have you seen it?  

Jeff    00:47:14    

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Where The Iron Giant spoiler alert Iron Giant doesn't do well. Um, yeah. Iron Giant sacrifices themselves. So that’s why they’re gonna cry at the end  

Dimple    00:47:30    

Well, so the moment that, so Ted says, you know, 74 minute mark, there's gonna be a room full of men crying here. It's like, I'll be one of 'em. Uh, but the moment that he's referencing and I was, as I was watching again, I had the subtitles on and it was popping up the character Hogarth at the 74 minute mark tells the Iron Giant, you are who you choose to be. And the Iron Giant responds, I’m Superman. And to your point, he sacrifices himself. Right. And so it's really amazing to me, like those little details that they throw in there. Right. So this idea again, with the limiting beliefs or whatever, but yeah, you are who you choose to be. Right. And we know this in our work as like in coaching people or at the end of the day, like there's a lot of things that are outside of our control, but like we can, we can make certain choices in our lives to like make our lives, what we want them to be within the parameters in which we operate. And so I just thought that that was really beautiful. The other thing I noticed is that you know, and this will pop up later, but it is Isaac. Uh, and I don't know who the guy was sitting next to him, but the guy like turns on his phone is looking his phone, and Isaac is like, and Isaac was like, you know, like turn it off. And then you see Roy like watching the exchange. I was like, okay.

Jeff    00:48:47    

It is, see it's happening. The leadership is happening. 

Dimple    00:48:51    

Exactly. Exactly. Uh, the only other kinda cultural reference, which I thought was kinda cool was when they check into the hotel and they're like getting the room numbers, Ted gets 5150. Yeah. Do you know that one,  

Jeff    00:49:08    

That's a cop code.  

Dimple    00:49:09    

It is. So, you know, they were paying homage to, um, I guess Sammy Hagar and Van Halen, but you're right. It is like 5150 is the code for, um, like a mentally disturbed person. And so again, the layers in this show, when you look at like his anxiety and panic attack and all, like, it's just phenomenal. 

Jeff    00:49:30    

Actually, I guess it's a California welfare institution code, qualifying officer clinician to involuntary confine, a person deemed to have a mental disorder that makes them a danger to him or herself.  

Dimple    00:49:44    

Crazy. And then the last kind of little Easter egg was when they're in the locker room before Nate gives the speech for Ted even gets there. Uh, Beard is writing like names on the board, uh, and he is writing the, like the opposing team's lineup. And so it says that he, he writes Hatch on the goalkeeper spot. And the other names on the pitch are Fileu, Von Steiner, Pyrie, and Hayes. And these are all names of characters from the, the 1981 film Victory, or Escape to Victory. If you're from outside the US, um, starring Sylvester Stallone, Michael Caine, Max von Sydow and Pele as a group of allied prisoners of war during World War II playing soccer against the Germans.  

Jeff    00:50:29    

What I gotta see this movie. Like, whoa, that is deep. That is deep into the Easters right there.  

Dimple    00:50:37    

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, such a good episode.  

Jeff    00:50:41    What are your takeaways?  

Dimple    00:50:43    

Oh, that's a good question. You know, I think this idea of noticing our limiting beliefs, right. So for me, like noticing when I am running into a limiting belief, and then what sense, like what agency do I have in the moment to change it to something else? Like, I think that's something I really wanna focus on. Last week, I was supposed to focus on, uh, seeing like it beyond, like, if someone's upset or whatever, like trying to see beyond it, having a little more compassion to think about what it is they might be going through that I can't see. Uh, but it was, I gotta be honest, it was a pretty quiet week and I was home cuz of all the snow and stuff. And so I didn't really interact with anyone, uh, very much last week. So I didn't really get to put that into practice very much, but, uh, I will keep it in mind as I move into the following week. But yeah, I think this week I'm really gonna try to focus on those limiting beliefs though. I think it's such an important, important one and it's one that we can continue to practice for the rest of our lives. Cause it's, doesn't just come very easily. So

Jeff    00:51:45    

Yeah, mine was about giving myself credit for any progress I do make, you know, like a certain level of like compassionate accountability. I did a horrible job of that as I beat myself up this weekend, but Hey, yeah.  

Dimple    00:52:03    

Did you, did you notice though, when you were beating yourself up?

Jeff    00:52:06    

Yeah, I noticed, yeah. I noticed, I just like sat in it. That's why I kind of like resonated with like Ted's like numbing part when he was just like laying on the bed. So taking, carrying that over, I think I'm fascinated with the idea of what actions can I take to break the limiting belief so I'm gonna be fascinated and focused on that of like, okay, I have this limiting belief it's struggling. Okay. What is the small action that I can actually do to disrupt it at this point?  

Dimple    00:52:38    

Great. Awesome. So that ends yet another, I mean, these are getting so good and I just wanna, like, I wanna like talk about more and more at one time just cuz they're they're so good, but thank you so much, so much fun, uh, as always. And I appreciate you so much.  

Jeff    00:52:55    

Thank you. And thanks so much everyone for listening and we will talk to you later.  

Dimple    00:53:01    

Yeah. See you next week.  

Dimple    00:53:09    

Thanks so much for listening to What Would Ted Lasso Do. If you got any nuggets of Ted Lasso wisdom from this episode, try them out in your life and let us know what happens at wwtldpodcast on Twitter, Instagram, or at our website, wwtldpodcast.com, where you'll also find a full transcript of the show. We love hearing what other Ted heads took away from the episode or details or perspectives that we might have missed.  

Jeff    00:53:32    

And if you do like the show, please subscribe and head on over to Apple Podcast and leave us a five star rating. It all helps. We don't know exactly why, but it does. So in the spirit of believing in hope, believing in believe, please help us out  

Dimple    00:53:50    And thank you to Podify and Sam Davidson for producing our show, to Kajal Dhabalia for our visuals and graphics and Kenzie Slottow for our theme song. And most of all, thank you to all of you for listening.  

Jeff    00:54:00    

Ted Lasso could simply just be another show to binge watch. Or if we challenge ourselves to consistently ask the question, what would Ted Lasso do? It could change the trajectory of your life. It has for us.

Dimple    00:54:17    

So join us again next time as we explore another episode and ask ourselves, what would Ted Lasso do?