The Diamond Dogs

Dimple (00:00:00):

Just a quick heads up that these are adults having adult conversations about things that take place on a show where the adults use a lot of adult language, all this to say, there might be some salty language ahead. So please plan accordingly.

Ted Lasso Clip
Speaker 2 (00:00:12):

You know, Rupert, guys have underestimated me my entire life. And for years I never understood why. It used to really bother me. But then one day I was driving my little boy to school and I saw this quote by Walt Whitman, who was painted on the wall there. It said, be curious, not judgmental. And I like that. So I get back in my car and I'm driving to work. And all of a sudden it hits me, all them fellas that used to belittle me, not a single one of them are curious. You know, they thought they had everything all figured out. And so they judged everything and they judged everyone. And I realized that they’re underestimating me. Who I was, had nothing to do with it. Cause if they were curious, they would ask questions. You know, questions like, have you played a lot of darts, Ted, which I would've answered, yes, sir. Every Sunday afternoon at a sports bar with my father from age 10 to 16, when he passed away. Barbecue sauce.

Dimple  (00:01:37):

What would Ted Lasso do? This is a question that we explore in each episode of this podcast. We take the lessons we learn from Ted Lasso and we apply them to the real world through the lens of leadership and positive psychology. My name is Dimple Dhabalia. 

Jeff (00:01:52):

And my name is Jeff Harry. And neither of us have ever recorded a podcast. But as Ted Lasso says, taking on a challenge is a lot like riding a horse. If you're comfortable while you're doing it, you're probably doing it wrong.

Dimple  (00:02:06):

We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we enjoyed making it. And then it helps you find new ways to believe. So how's it going?

Jeff  (00:02:24):

Just finished the episode. Drama.

Dimple  (00:02:30):

Uh, yeah, for sure. Let's jump into it. This was, uh, episode eight Diamond Dogs was written by Ian Bowen, uh, directed by Declan Lowney. So what came up for you? What do you feel like? What was like the big overarching thing that you saw?

Jeff  (00:02:49):

Think about the beginning, you know, Nate's still under the bus. That's how he starts. Ted doesn't know what to do. He's just slept with someone. He doesn't know how to handle this and like dealing with like something that doesn't match his own personality. And then Rebecca's like telling that dude, get out, what am I doing? It's my, it's my place. Get outta here. So like that's the beginning of it, right? This is coming off like such a real good episode too. So now that they are feeling good, now the radical honesty in order to move forward must come out.

Dimple  (00:03:24):

Yeah. A hundred percent. So for any listeners, I just want to say that we are dealing with some tech issues today. <laugh> so we're, we're moving forward with recording. If you hear a little clicks here and there it's just, um, some internet issues that we're having. So with that being said, I completely agree. Like definitely honesty was a big part of this, but for me, like what really came through was one of what I think is the most important skill that a leader can have, which is emotional intelligence. And to me, this whole episode was such a demonstration of emotional intelligence and all the facets of it. And so for people who don't know emotional intelligence is really just that ability to, you know, understand our own emotions and use them and manage them in ways that can help us, um, not feel as stressed out, make us communicate better with other people, make us be able to empathize with other people, help to diffuse conflict when, um, things are challenging.

Dimple (00:04:26):

And I just thought like, as I was kind of like watching the episode and, and thinking it through, there was a point at which, um, when the diamond dogs are together and they're kind of thinking about the names Ted shouts out like, oh, what about EQ Warriors or something like that? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I was like, oh, that's like a little Easter egg in there. So EQ is emotional quotient, which, uh, people are usually familiar with IQ, which is the intelligence quotient, but emotional quotient is, uh, I'm trying to say that like really fast it's really hard is all about how we manage our emotions. And so, uh, just a really, really incredibly layered view of that through a series of relationships. Right. So we had Keeley and Roy, so we're watching that kind of develop. We had, uh, Ted and Rebecca. And so continuing on with where they're at, based on, especially what happened last week and where he's at versus where she's at, uh, Rebecca and Rupert, Rebecca and Higgins. And then of course the diamond dogs, which I think is such a beautiful representation of healthy male, like friendships, you know, but anyway, so that's kind of what, uh, came up for me.

Jeff (00:05:36):

Yeah. I love when the diamond dog swooped in to like solve any problem. I love how Nate even came up with the name. Nate came up with a name right after he threw up. And there's something interesting about that. Brainstorming of like, you know, when you're throwing out, especially, uh, you know, whenever one brainstorms that people are always trying to be perfect, but it's usually when you do something ridiculous that that's when eventually like the perfect idea comes. So when he is like letting go all of his ambitions, that is when the name appears. And I thought that was a lesson there.

Dimple  (00:06:18):

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So definitely, uh, letting go of those inhibitions and being able to feel comfortable enough to sit there with a trash can in your hand, throwing up in front of your boss. I think that's big. That's really big, but I think that goes back to, you know, so with, with this idea of emotional intelligence, there's really kind of four things that we're looking at. So we're looking at self-management. So this is how we control our own feelings and emotions and behaviors, um, their self-awareness. So being able to recognize how our emotions show up and how they impact how we think or behave, um, and then their social awareness, which is where we're able to take in the cues of what's happening around us. Um, and then relationship management, which is like that ability to build those really strong relationships, communicate clearly, and just like create that space where people, you know, that space of psychological safety that we talk about where people feel safe.

Dimple  (00:07:15):

And so I think like, uh, that's, you know, in terms of a lesson with Nate is like, it's just, it's demonstrating that Ted and Beard have created such a space, that relationship management piece of it, like they've managed to create a space where Nate who, when we first met him, could like barely like speak to Rebecca. Uh, he couldn't speak to Rebecca is now in this space where he can show up in this way that most of us would be like, I, I can't show up in front of my boss that way. I mean, that's, that's pretty extraordinary. And even just like before the diamond dogs actually meet, like coming off the bus, like Beard is a, a great example also of someone who just is like always watching and noticing and, and taking it in. And he's been watching Ted on this five hour bus ride. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, he's like, you didn't say anything. And then Ted finally tells him what happened. And, and he says, I'm gonna tell you, but I don't wanna talk about it again. I don't wanna do, you know, like goes through this whole list of things. And then as soon as he is done, Beard's like, you wanna talk about it? Yes, please. Right away. <laugh> you know? And so he has that, like, he has that ability to, to look a little bit deeper, which I thought was really cool.

Jeff  (00:08:24):

And the reason why I resonated with the idea of radical honesty was because then like Ted has to actually be like vulnerable to the diamond dogs. Right. And yeah, very like, and then they are really truthful to him because they're like, did you have fun? Uh, is that something like, you know, why do you feel guilty about it? Why do you just enjoy the fact that that's what happened? And it's, she's struggling for that. Because then again, he's just like, it's challenging his identity of like who he is or who he thought he was, and this does not match up with that. And they're calling him out on it. Why? Because they're close to him now, even Haggins like, they're all calling him out on his BS, which is great.

Dimple  (00:09:11):

Yeah. And to your point of attunement from the past, they're all attuned to each other now, too. Mm-hmm <affirmative> right. Like to that point of where, uh, Beard was like, you know, we,

Jeff (00:09:23):

The cutting scissors joke, you know? Yeah.

Dimple (00:09:26):

Cutting some slack. And so, and they all just

Jeff(00:09:29):

Fed off slack and you're like, oh

Dimple (00:09:32):

Yeah, they all just fed off of each other. And like, and as he said, like they stuck the landing, you know? And so that attunement that you talked about comes again, when you're in that space of like feeling connected to the people around you, what about like, as, uh, as Roy kind of gets introduced to this, what did you make of that?

Jeff (00:09:50):

Which part? The part where at first he's not very like open and Keeley doesn't understand where he's coming from. So she's just like, you're not showing me attention. And then later on, he actually reveals what, you know, what he's actually busy with? I actually really love that part. It's really quick what he says when he goes, I went to yoga. The reason I was busy was because I went to yoga <laugh> And then afterwards someone was going through a divorce. So then we went drinking and then we ended up hanging out and watching some drag queens. And I was like, whoa, that's a lot till 2:00 AM. <laugh> it's just like, talk about radical honesty. But at the beginning, he is very coy. And just being like, I don't want anyone to know who I am outside of this, because this, again, just like Ted, right. This does not match up with my personality or what people know of me.

Dimple  (00:10:48):

It's interesting because I feel like this episode shows like an evolution of emotional intelligence. So on the one hand you've got Jamie who's just like clueless. Right. So when he, when he shows up at Keeley's house, you know, and she asks them like, how's it going? He immediately reverts to himself. Right? Like, oh, I, I scored this many goals and I did this and I did that, you know, and never asked her about her. Like, you know, it's all about him. And then you've got Roy who's like in that middle space. So like he's not aware of how his way of speaking or what, his way of communicating the impact that it's having on Keeley initially. Right? Like, and so he starts off in that place of maybe not having as much emotional intelligence. And then we watch the arc of, he goes in and uh, when in that initial conversation that they have in the press room, when she confronts him, he's just like, and he explains like what he did and stuff, he kind of stops and he pauses and he says, I'm trying to do things differently this time.

Dimple (00:11:53):

I should have told you that. I apologize. And so he's able to like recognize like, oh, okay, I have to communicate in a different way. And he can own that and take that in. And then you get like, you know, where Keeley tells him, okay, great. So in the spirit of honesty, like, you know, I slept with Jamie last night and like to watch him like go into that space of grunting. And that's how his emotions show up. He's that angry guy. Like he's, he's got that anger in him. And when he goes back to the diamond dogs and like gets their feedback, even that is pretty funny because that whole space where Ted is just like, oh, well, you know, Keeley should never have had a pass and it's not fair to Roy or whatever, you know? And, and he's like nodding along like yeah, exactly.

Dimple (00:12:42):

And everyone's like, no. And then when he was, and then, you know, he says, well, I can't control, and, and Roy says, I can't control my emotions. And, and Ted says, oh, well then by all means, let them control you. And that's yeah, yeah. Right. And, and I think it, like, it clicks for him where he is like, oh, okay. And I just love that line when he finally goes back to and well, and then the whole thing where they like, bring it home and tell him to, to get over it, like grow up and get over it. But when he goes back to Keeley and he says, I'm over it, I'm not a, I'm not a baby child. <laugh> I was like, that's the

Jeff  (00:13:17):

Cause he's been acting like a baby child, like the runt, the pushing back on the diamond dogs. And just like, and just, just angry that, that he hasn't had his way. It's gotta be his way. So when he throws it to Beard to close it out, he is just like, grow up, get over it. Like, it's just that. And it's just like the diamond dog's coming in. And it's like, woo.

Jeff (00:13:44):

Oh, oh. <laugh>

Jeff  (00:13:45):

But talk about attunement where they're all like, oh, you're like, oh, this is amazing. Yeah. Like everything is working. Yeah. They're in tune. And also there's um, the fact that Roy even came to them, Roy could have just walked out once the diamond dogs in and mind you, they  swooped in quick too. Like, it was less than like 30 seconds. And they already know they already know what he's gonna talk about. Like, they're like, oh, Nate, like, oh, it's about Keeley. Right. You know, like, so the fact that they're on, like that level just shows how much they've like grown. Yeah. And then again, radical honesty. Right. Like they also talk about psychological safety. They can be so honest and blunt with Roy. Yeah. Now, like, because think about it just a little bit earlier when Nate was really honest with Roy, when he was calling it, all of the players out. Yeah.

Jeff (00:14:43):

Like He was intimidated talking to Roy and now he feels he's in a safe space with the diamond dogs that call him out on his BS

Dimple  (00:14:51):

Yeah. A hundred percent. Well, and it was interesting even taking it back a step further, the fact that Roy would come to Ted at all right. Like the diamond dogs, for sure. The fact that he stayed, he didn't just walk out mm-hmm <affirmative>. But the fact that he even came to Ted to talk about a personal issue, you know, mm-hmm, <affirmative> when, uh, when you think back to like the very first episode where he's like talking about, you know, Ted being Ronald McDonald and stuff, like he had no respect for him. And now it's like, he's come like full circle to be like, okay, this is someone I trust. And he's going to give me advice that I can take, you know, and of course, Ted calls in others, because he knows that it's not about one person giving me advice. The other thing that was interesting is when, uh, Ted walks in and sees Roy, Roy is looking at the pyramid of success. And I, I paused on that. Um, and actually I pulled up a copy later and I was looking at it. And what's interesting is so many of the blocks in the pyramid of success and the things around the edges that contain what's in the pyramid are all like different aspects of emotional intelligence, which I thought was really just, again, those little details that they throw in there. Um, and so you've got Roy looking at that and studying it when Ted walks in, you know, I just thought that that was really kinda cool

Jeff (00:16:13):

And, and looking skeptical at it as well. Like I both am interested and I'm like, I don't know if I like this, but the fact that he's even in the room is really big because, you know, when I talk about play a lot, I talk about like the idea that like, what makes play great is choice mm-hmm <affirmative>. And he's chosen to be in the room. He's chosen to play with the diamond dogs. And then later on when he is talking with Keeley and he is just like, I'm over it, then she starts to play with him and then sees if he's willing to play. When she's like raising her hand, independent woman, you know, regular, independent woman, online magazine, independent woman, um, international, like he, could've just been like, I'm done, but he's like, if I want to be with her, I need to get in attunement with her. So I must play as part of this. Yeah. But then he also draws the line when she asks them about the curvature. So he is like, okay, I'm done. Okay. I'll sit down on this. 

Dimple (00:17:19):

Uh, yeah. Let's so  I wanna talk about their relationship. There's so many articles and stuff out there about the relationship, and it's just, I love how they start out. You know, it's like, from the very beginning, like, this is the foundation that they're building and they're being so honest in communicating with each other, like, it didn't start off great. Right. Like they had this amazing kiss and then there was no communication and, you know, so we've got like Keeley, like being vulnerable and going into the training room the next day. And you can tell she's nervous, right? Like we've all been there where you kind of like someone, but you're not sure because like they haven't, you know, like there's all these games, people play. And, and so she's like trying to figure it out. And she, you know, she asked him to have coffee and he is like, he's like, no, I'm busy.

Dimple (00:18:12):

And I can understand that feeling of like, if you think about like, she was in a relationship with Jamie where he was lying to her and like, he was bringing extra dates to events and, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so there's that baggage that we carry into new relationships based on things that have happened. Right. And so I'm sure there was a feeling of like, oh, he's gaslighting me. Like, he's not really being honest. Or, you know, how do I know I can trust him? What's funny is she's texting him at almost 1:00 AM. First of all. <laugh> which I'm just

Jeff (00:18:43):

Like, oh, I didn't notice that. Oh, wow. It was 1:00 AM. Oh, because she's used to that. Right.

Dimple (00:18:49):

Right. And so she's texting him at 1:00 AM and she's, or it's, it's 12:55 and it on, and then it shows that he read it at like 12:56, and then he doesn't respond. And so she's sitting there like, come on, Roy. You know, in that moment, I was like, Ugh, I get it. Because that's like, one of my biggest issues is like with text messages, I try so hard to respond to everything because I hate that feeling of being left hanging, you know? And I always like, I don't want to leave other people feeling that way. And I just, like, I felt for her in that moment, because, and the problem is we've talked about this in the past that our mind goes into all this storytelling about all right, he's up. And he obviously read my message. So like, why isn't he, what's he doing? Like, why isn't he writing me back? Like what, you know? And we go into that space, which just primed her for the arrival of Jamie. Who's also showing up at her house at 1:00 AM. <laugh> right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so it was just like the perfect storm of things to happen to, to get her back down into that place.

Jeff(00:19:53):

And also just thinking about the idea of ghosting, right? What is ghosting, but like the opposite of attunement, because you like put yourself out there you're vulnerable. You're like, you're almost like in the playground where you're like, do you like to play? And then the person, not only just doesn't say anything, just like walks away <laugh> yeah. So then you're like, you, you have those like issues from like your childhood. And you're like, oh my God, no, no, all over again. I didn't even notice it was that 1:00 AM that she texted. That's interesting. But then also just looking at Keeley and Roy's, both of them are trying to do things differently and also, still hold onto certain parts of themselves while like figuring out what they wanna let go.

Dimple (00:20:42):

Exactly.

Jeff (00:20:43):

That's hard. Cause you're just like, it's so hard. OK. What, like, it's just in Keeley's, you know, in Jamie's nature to be like, oh, well, you know, it's 1:00 AM. So we might as well do it. And it doesn't have much meaning, but for him it's totally different. And then for Roy he's just like, okay, I shouldn't have an issue with that because frankly I slept around and I know how to do this stuff. So just watching them both struggle with the idea of like, I want to be better. I want to be more than what I've used to be, but I also don't know how. Yeah. And I think that is a fascinating thing that you can take with like any relationship of like, that's the crossroads. Right. You know of like, do I want to evolve, but then do I lose myself in the process or do I want to evolve? And can I still be me?

Dimple (00:21:32):

Yeah. I, I completely agree. And like being able to ask that question and also like, it takes a lot of courage, right. To like, say it out loud. And so when he says that, like, I want to do things differently this time. It's almost like you can see her shifting into that space too, because that's when she says, okay, well, I need to tell you, she didn't have to tell him she slept with Jamie right. Like she didn't have to say anything, but he's trying to be more honest. And that's another really interesting thing. Like we've talked about with Ted coming into the team and the influence that he has had just by being himself. Right. So sometimes when we have the courage to show up and do something a certain way, we inadvertently kind of give the people around us that courage to show up in that way too. You know

Jeff (00:22:23):

What comes up for me when you say that is like the oversharing. Right, right. Because so Roy, so Keeley shares because she wants to be honest, Ted at the beginning wants to share with Rebecca that he slept with her friend

Dimple (00:22:38):

Sassy. 

Jeff (00:22:38):

And it's like, and that is not EQ. Like that's, stuff's not emotional. That's just you just so it's interesting how like, sometimes people are like, oh, okay. So I should just be radically honest all the time. It's like, no, it's different. Depending on this situation, meaning you have to identify what it is that you are not comfortable with typically. And then do, you know, try to break out of that. In Ted's case, he constantly is oversharing and this time is just like, no, just own it. And you be and move on. It's not that big of a deal. And for Keeley and Roy, it's the exact opposite.

Dimple (00:23:15):

Yeah. And it's about having that discernment. Right? The discernment of knowing like what to say when and how and where to share it and that kind of thing. But what I loved about when Keeley shares her moment with Roy is that she acknowledges, like, it takes her a minute to acknowledge because he calls her out on it. Right. Like I'm terrible. I, I shouldn't say it anymore, but like I used to be really terrible with conflict. It's something I've worked on for a really long time. I, and I'm still not great at it. Um, I'm getting better at it, but especially at the very, very beginning of a relationship to have someone call you out that way, I mean, I'd be freaking out and she's so calm. And she says, and initially she's like, no, that's no like, because he says, oh well you, you know, you're punishing me for something that I didn't even know I did mm-hmm <affirmative> right.

Dimple (00:24:05):

And she's like, no, no, no. And then she's like, yeah, yep, yep. That's what I did. Right. And she recognizes all right. Like he's being more honest. I need to be more honest. And once she's able to say that she goes a step further though and says like, I'm gonna need you to be okay with this if we're gonna move forward. Right. Yeah. And that's huge. Like that's such a risk, but it's such an important risk because otherwise what kind of foundation is it gonna be like if she's constantly thinking like, oh he's got this in the back of his mind, like this idea of radical honesty, radical responsibility. Like, what I love about it is if you've got two people who are in the same space and willing to honor that with each other, then you take away that sense of like, I don't know what the other person is thinking because you can take them at their work. Right. So when he says like, I wanna do things differently, I wanna be more honest. She's able to take him at his word and believe that what he's saying to her is the truth, you know? And then when he does come back and says I'm over it and she asks him, well, you know, why should I trust this sudden change of heart? And I love his response about I like you more than I hate him. And I think that that's like, that's such a nice response. Cause it's honest

Jeff (00:25:20):

And just barely he's like, it just barely, just barely

Dimple  (00:25:25):

Exactly. It creates that space though. Right. So we're now like when they move forward, she's not gonna have to worry that if they get into an argument in his head, he's like, oh, you know, she's slept with Jamie and, and he's not gonna bring that back. Yeah. And like use it against her, you know?

Jeff (00:25:42):

And I think of like, well, I even think of my relationships, the relationships I had that have been the best started off by us calling each other out on our BS. And I'm thinking about my relationships as well as my friendships, my closest friendships, because then at the very beginning you can just be like, yeah, don't believe you. But I, I see the real you, I see it. I see it. It's both refreshing and humbling. It's super humbling. Yeah. It's just like, Ugh, like this person sees me, but sees all of me sees both the good and the bad, the, you know, the honest and the BS and is like, you know, it's refreshing and also scary. And then you have to be like, okay, am I willing to allow this person in? So I think that's what was so fascinating about just watching their evolution, the fact that he shares the yoga thing, the yoga thing is a big,

Dimple  (00:26:43):

It is a big thing,

Jeff (00:26:44):

You know? Cause it's like, like first off, it's good for my core. Like, like he's being fully honest. Right. You know? Yes. And then she's like, I'm gonna kiss you now. Like they're, they're like saying exactly what, what they feel. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so I don't know that that was, that was quite refreshing. And then also the fact that he grabs the camera from the paparazzi or whatever, because unlike Keeley in the past, she would hate that because she's like, oh, this is actually good for press or whatever it is or whatever, you know, or maybe she would, I don't know. But he's just like, no, like this is our moment and that this is something special to just us. And he's also thoughtful enough to be like, here, here are pictures. Now there's pictures of us now there are pictures from our first date. So I'm still staying me. Meaning like, I don't want to take a photo of us standing in front of each other, but I'm taking advantage of this situation because now I don't have to take photos of our first date here. Here you go.

Dimple (00:27:45):

<laugh> but the other thing is like, to your point about like the yoga and stuff, you know, like we've talked about the writing on the show, but it's so phenomenal because just in that like 20 seconds, they like give us a whole new side of Roy. Like we see how soft he is, you know, in such or like, and I shouldn't say soft, because soft makes it seem like, like it has a negative connotation to it, but like he is just like

Jeff (00:28:09):

Pathetic.

Dimple (00:28:10):

Yeah. You know? And like the fact that he, you know, he knows that one of the yoga women is like going through a divorce and needed to talk and like, he was like gonna be there for her. And then I dunno if you caught it at the end when they're walking away he's cause like when they first are walking, she's like, where are we going to dinner? And he says, oh it's a surprise. And then as they're walking away, he's like, come on, I'm cooking for you. <laugh> yeah. I was like, yeah. Awesome. You know?

Jeff (00:28:33):

Yeah. Like I'm angry about it, but also that's what I'm doing for you because I care

Dimple  (00:28:38):

It's like this whole other, you know, like he's like the tootsie roll, right? Like that heart exterior and that like squishy interior. Okay. So let's talk about Rebecca and Ted though. Cause I feel like this is the, the super juicy one, because it's got everyone's favorite monologue in it. And so we start out like with them, it's like the day after and he's now brought biscuits and truffles. Right. <laugh> and so there's that piece.

Jeff(00:29:04):

And then he drops him off and he is about to leave. He's like ready to go. And she's like, wait, she now wants him to stay.

Dimple (00:29:12):

Yeah. And like, you know, and he's so thankful to her. So it's interesting because this is where there is kind of a, a gap in what he's reading. Right. So he's usually pretty on point with the people around him and reading the situation. But in this case he is reading the situation as, Hey Rebecca and I had a moment when I had my panic attack, she was there for me. She's got my back and then he tells her I've got yours. He's not reading the situation correctly because she doesn't really have his back in. Like she doesn't have the teams back. Let's say like she had that moment there because she was finally showing up as herself and herself, I think really is genuinely empathetic and caring. But she's just blinded by rage against Rupert because she's so hurt. But they're comfortable now. Like he's, she's comfortable with him enough so to ask him to, you know, and she's got that emotional intelligence too, like, she's like, all right, like he's the person to bring with me to talk to the Milk sisters because he's gonna be able to win them over with his charm and you know, all the stuff that like she really struggles with in that situation.

Jeff (00:30:22):

Yes. Well, she's also asking him for help, which is like rare for her and, and also asking to spend more time with him, which like is not normal <laugh> yeah.

Dimple (00:30:32):

Yeah. But I think it's asking, asking to spend time with him though, out of like a selfish need. Not because she is like genuinely excited, you know?

Jeff(00:30:42):

Yes. But she sees that he can actually help and she's willing to actually help, you know, have and have him help.

Dimple (00:30:49):

Yeah. Hundred percent.

Jeff (00:30:50):

 That's why, when man, when it gets to the scene, I love the scene. It's my favorite scene of the entire season. You know, when they're in the bar and I had forgotten because I have only watched this once. So like I forgot that, like, that he had purchased that what Rupert had purchased, you know, the 2.9% from the sisters mm-hmm <affirmative> and then given it to Rebecca and it was like, oh man, like, oh, like, this is, this is like evil, like on a, another level of, and to do it as a way of announcing that he was getting engaged to her.

Dimple (00:31:33):

He's so gross.

Jeff (00:31:34):

Like it makes sense as to why Rebecca gets so much joy out of Rupert because he's doing that exact thing to her. Oh yeah. 10 times worse than she is. So she's like, this is the least I can do. I just want him to be in pain and suffering because he continues to emotionally abuse. Even though he's now not there. And then to have then the audacity to be like, yeah, now that I've bought these, this 2.9%, I'm gonna be sitting right next to you every day and then criticizing you every day. It was like, oh my goodness. Like this dude is fricking evil. So that's why that's fascinating when Ted is just like, you know, he starts to play with the darts. Right. Talk about like being honest. Right. And just mm-hmm <affirmative> or not showing your cards, showing your cards, throwing it with his right hand.

Jeff (00:32:28):

And he is just like, oh, what's this game. I don't know this game. And then Rupert busts out his things when they make the bet. And first Rupert's like, Hey, 10 grand let's do it. Or 10,000 pounds. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and then Ted is just like, Ooh, this is the opportunity for me to like set some boundaries, talking about setting boundaries is like the boundaries. Like you can't be in the box with her. And he's like, I'm willing to like bet on this in order to do this. And then when it switches to the left hand, then it's like, oh, then this is all I'm like, let's go. So yeah. I was so excited just for this part. Like <laugh> yeah. This is my favorite part by far.

Dimple (00:33:09):

Yeah. Yeah. I love this scene too. It's um, it's one that I've actually like shown in workshops and stuff too. Like I think it's such a beautiful example of, and again, this, this scene I think is where all four of those parts of emotional intelligence come into one space. And so on the self-management piece, you've got Ted who's able to control his own emotions in that situation. Right. And he's adapting to what's happening around him to the point of where even when like Baz and those guys are, you know, like Ted Lasso sucks. Like he can, he can stay calm. He sees the way Rupert's talking. He can stay calm. And then the self-awareness piece, he knows his strengths. He knows he's a good dart player. And he has confidence in that. Right. So that's the self awareness. And then the social awareness is just the empathy that he has for Rebecca.

Dimple (00:33:59):

He's seeing the way that she's being treated. He's understanding like how she's feeling, what needs she has in this moment. And he's picking up those emotional cues, but he's also picking up the cues that Rupert is sending out, including his arrogance. Right. Like he knows he's setting him up. Like he knows that a guy like Rupert, you know, believes that he is like thinking of everything mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so setting him up in that space, like he's got that social awareness to know that. And then just that relationship management again. So in this case, it was really about like how he's been slowly building his relationship with the community. Right. So you, once again, see Rupert, who's just such a jerk and everyone in the pub loves him. Right. He's buying drinks for everyone. He's like, all right. If, if new Rebecca, well, he doesn't call her new Rebecca.

Dimple (00:34:48):

But if Rebecca, you know, hits the dart board, we're gonna cheer. Like it's, you know, we just won the FA cup. Like, you know, it's all this stuff. But Ted sees like, okay, that's not the case. And he's already started creating like such a relationship with the people in the community. So that even when Bas says that Ted Lasso sucks, he's able to switch it into a positive and say, you know what? Uh, yeah. You know, you're right. Like you, you, Jeremy and Paul have been professionally candid about your feelings, right? Yeah. And he just kinda laugh it off.

Jeff (00:35:21):

He remembers our names and yeah,

Dimple (00:35:23):

Exactly.

Jeff(00:35:24):

Don't be happy that he remembers our names, but they also are happy that he remembers their names. Right.

Dimple (00:35:29):

A hundred percent. And by the end he's actually toasting with them, which is like so funny because through the whole game they're like cheering against him. Right. They're cheering for Rupert. It's interesting that you say like that he's, he's kind of lying about like, not knowing about darts and stuff. Cause there's a lot, like a lot of discussion about this on like the Ted Lasso groups where people are like, you know, he talks about being curious, um, and asking the question, Hey, you know, Ted, have you like, do you, have you played a lot of darts or something like that? And people are like, well, Rupert does ask at the beginning, do you like darts? Yeah. And so I was reading, like someone made the distinction, which I think is a good one. That there's a difference between those two questions. Right. Like, right. Especially when we learn that he played darts up until 16 when his dad died. Yeah. And so it's possible that he knows a lot about darts, but he doesn't like them because maybe he associates that with the death of his father or something that, you know, like, um, may actually be painful. And so there's, there's like a little bit of distinction, like where he

Jeff: (00:36:33)

He's hustling, he's hustling. 

Dimple (00:36:35):

Exactly. He's hustling

Jeff (00:36:37):

He’s hustling, which is not lying. It's just hustling. It's

Dimple (00:36:40):

Just like exactly. And

Jeff (00:36:41):

It's the first time with Rupert where he's not nice to Rupert. He's just like, I'm done. Like, yeah. He, up until that point, he had been respectful to Rupert, but when Rupert made some comment and he is like, whoa, whoa. You know, I'm holding the darts

Dimple (00:36:59):

Better manners when I'm holding the dart, please better

Jeff (00:37:02):

Manners when I'm holding the darts. That's at that point where he's just like, I'm done. Yeah. You know? And then he already knows when he turns to who is the person that runs

Dimple (00:37:11):

Mae, Mae 

Jeff (00:37:12):

the owner of the bar Mae, Mae. Yeah. And he is just like, what do I need? And she's like, triple sevens, double twenties, you know, like saying her thing. And it's just like in darts, which is a very European game. Not as much like here, like yeah, that's really difficult. <laugh> like, yeah. So, and he's just like, okay, like he's built it up on purpose this way. And was always in control. Even though Rebecca was like, what are you doing? Like, no, you're gonna give him even more power. We can't have him win again. And he's literally saying to her, he's just like, if you really wanna like beat him, then we have to actually play him instead of being scared of him. And like, I'm done, like I'm ready to, so, and then that whole part of like, when he goes into the curiosity of like my, my colleague Lauren Yee talks about curiosity all the time and she talks about adulting, like a kid, you know?

Jeff (00:38:10):

And it's this idea that like kids are curious to kids are constantly asking questions and it's almost sad. Rupert's almost sad because he's, he's lacking such curiosity that his life is always gonna be the same. It's just always gonna be the same, like where, and, and it's to the point that, that he can't even be away from the game that he needs to fight to get back in to be part of Richmond, because it's his identity of like his praise and outside of that, he has nothing like if he is not beating Rebecca in some way or winning in some way, then it's empty. And basically that's why I find it so also powerful about Ted, because he is not only saying like, oh, you lack curiosity, and now I'm gonna kick your butt, but oh, you know, your just, life is kinda sad.

Dimple  (00:39:02):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and when

Jeff (00:39:04):

I, and barbecue sauce and I'm like, like that's gold.

Dimple (00:39:09):

Yeah. Well, so there's a, the thing behind barbecue sauce is another big topic of discussion in these groups. <laugh> and like, and so someone mentioned that, uh, you know, in Kansas City, one of the, the main barbecue sauce that are most famous barbecue sauce is that comes out of Kansas City is called Bullseye Barbecue. And so instead of saying bullseye, as he throws it, he says barbecue sauce. I was like, oh, that's pretty cool to the issue of, of what Ted said, you know, about the better manners. Like, I really love that as well because he's not yelling or screaming. He's just like he admonishes him in a way that is still feels kind of respectful and then reminded me of, have you ever watched Mad Men? Mm-hmm <affirmative> the first or second episode of Mad Men, Don Draper gets into the elevator and there's these two young guys in there and there's a woman and they're just like making comments about her.

Dimple (00:40:01):

And you can tell she's really uncomfortable. And Don looks at both of them and he says, uh, take your hats off. He says like, take your hats off. There's a lady present, you know? And without even saying like, anything else, like he's admonishing them to like, be respectful and not behave that way just by, you know, the symbolism of take your hat off because that's being respectful, you know? And it, it reminded me of that, which I thought was really cool. And then the other thing I was gonna say is when I work with leaders, I talk a lot about curiosity too. Like I think it is genuinely the most underrated tool we have in our leadership toolbox because yep. For, you know, for the exact reason that you talked about, but like, when we are not curious, we're judgmental, like we are so filled with judgment and that's, that's exactly what Rupert is.

Dimple (00:40:47):

Right? Like he is just, he's so filled with judgment about everyone and everything around him. And again, he has no humility and he thinks that he is just everything and it's just such a beautiful scene. And what's interesting is that this script, as it was written was actually very different. Like that monologue was very different and Jason Sudeikis right up until like this minute that they shot was like reworking it. And so it, a lot of it just came out in those last few minutes before they actually shot it where he was just thinking it through, thinking it, through thinking it through. And I I'm just floored because it is one of the most like impactful, uh, monologues that I think most people have ever heard. And it's just it's so, and it packs in so much stuff. Like we learn a lot more about Ted, but also we just get this thing about like, oh right. When people have an issue, it's not about me. Yeah. There's something else going on for them. And you mentioned earlier about like that inner child, that's like, you know, been hurt or whatever. Like there's something that's happened to this guy that, you know, is a shame. And so Ted is curious about that, but Rupert is not curious back and uh, it's yeah. Just, uh, such a phenomenal,

Jeff (00:42:12):

Phenomenal, well, it's the whole idea of like hurt people, hurt people. Right. You know, and I think of from like curiosity from the play standpoint, because curiosity is rooted in play like Ted from the very beginning, since he landed in England has been playing. Right. Yeah. And the whole like idea of play too, is that it's purposeless that there is no result. That's why like Ted can be like, I don't really care about the score. I care more about like the connections that I make. So the thing that's so sad about Rupert is the only way in which he can interact. I wouldn't even refer to it as play. I don't think Rupert knows how to play mm-hmm <affirmative> because he has to always win that he has to, there has to always be a result. And Rebecca is fighting between that fighting between wanting a result all the time and wanting to win the Rupert side of her.

Jeff (00:43:06):

And the other part of her, that's just like, I just want to be me. I just want, I wanna sing, you know, I wanna be empathetic. I want to care. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and she's constantly fighting that. And that's like the, you know, the moment where she finally beats Rupert, she's like, oh, that just was so much fun. You know? Um, and I think it's both, it wasn't just fun because she won. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> but also just the process of it that like, she finally felt like empowered. And then it's funny because then Ted who's like, no big deal. Like I was gonna win the whole time. Like, people didn't know, but I was gonna win. And then he's just like, well, you know what you need to do, which isn't in her personality or at least not in her professional personality, you got about drinks for everybody. And she's like, oh, do I have to, but like, look, do you want, do you want, you know, do you wanna let go of that old facade? Right? Yeah. Because you just screamed at them earlier. You screamed at those three dudes earlier. <laugh> yeah, she did.

Jeff (00:44:06):

We must win. And now she's like, okay, fine. I'll buy drinks, you know? Yeah. And that just like the evolution of so many people in that moment. Yeah. You know, and then being like, well, I'm still a winner a because I have you,

Dimple (00:44:22):

Rebecca.

Jeff (00:44:23):

It was just like, like, he always slithers out. He can always, you know, he can always spin it.

Dimple (00:44:33):

 Yeah. You have to wonder, like, what's going through new Rebecca's head. Like, what are you doing with this guy? Like, he's not even hiding what kind of a jerk is his ex-wife like, what, how do you think he's gonna treat you? He's just said that, oh, once we're married, everything, that's, hers will be mine and everything. That's mine will stay mine. Like, and she's just smiling along. I'm like, what's going through her head.

Jeff (00:44:57):

I dunno how to answer that in a way that is like, you know, like respectful, because it's just like, they're not adding layers to her story. Right. So she comes off a certain way. I mean, you know, in many ways maybe she comes off the way Keeley used to come off to people when she was younger.

Dimple (00:45:16):

That's

Jeff (00:45:16):

True. She's just younger. She's young. I mean, remember she just said, I thought I'd be paying off my student loans. Yeah. And so it's just like, she's 22. So it's just like, you know, give her some slack. Like she's just there for the ride right now. And really doesn't know what's happening, but it's just also like, wow. A lot of stuff's getting paid for, so this is pretty sweet, you know? So

DImple  (00:45:38):

Like that's true. That's true.

Jeff (00:45:40):

She can always leave the dude. So like whatever.

Dimple (00:45:43):

Yeah. Um, so I wanna talk for a second about Rebecca and Higgins. Cause this is where we see a turning point in

DImple  (00:45:50):

Their relationship too. Right. And I think because of all the things that,

Jeff (00:45:55):

The diamond dogs,

Dimple (00:45:57):

All the things that you just said about like, you know, seeing Rebecca kind of taking off that persona and like stepping into herself a little bit, it's all the more disappointing when we see her in the next day. And you know, Ted has just like his team now is like telling him, you know, Sam's like, we'll die for you coach. Like you tell us what you want us to do, you know? And so Ted's in that space and like everything's feeling good and they've now done that beautiful, like hi boss thing for her. And, and she plays along. So you're like, oh, okay. Like, you know, and then she's just like right back at it. And it's so disappointing and, and it's, it's so refreshing to see Higgins, like finally just say, like, I just know, like I can't do this anymore, you know?

Jeff  (00:46:44):

And he got that bravery from the diamond dogs. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because he has been hanging out with them and being completely honest that he is just like, I'm done, like I'm done. And he owns his own. He's also radically honest too. She like calls him out on his bullshit. Right. And she's just like, well, you just let him do his thing. And he's just like, you know what? You're right. I was wrong. And I

Dimple (00:47:06):

Have to carry that. Yep.

Jeff (00:47:07):

And I have to carry that and I own that. And also this is messed up. And the fact is, is you're never gonna completely get joy from always seeing Rupert get hurt because you're hurting so many other people in the process. And then he's willing to like, just then walk out and then she thinks they're playing the regular old game. Mm-hmm <affirmative> well, I don't know if he has ever even played that game before, but she's done this with other people. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> where, you know, and then they come back and I don't think she realizes like what just happened.

Dimple (00:47:42):

Yeah. Yeah. And he even talks about like, I should have been braver, you know, like when she calls him out, he says I should have been braver. And so it is nice to see him stepping into that courage now, uh, to, to really own it and to realize like, you know, and I think to your point about like, you know, hanging out with the diamond dogs or just like the time that he has been spending with Ted and seeing how Ted operates it has made him realize, like Ted's not a bad person and he's genuinely trying to, uh, uplift this team, a team that Higgins genuinely cares about the community genuinely cares about. And on some level Rebecca does too. She's just not there right now because she's so blinded by, you know, all her, uh, pain and trauma from Rupert. And so, uh, and so like, if you care about something like you don't wanna kill it and Higgins can't be part of killing something that he loves, you know? And so I just thought that was, um, pretty, and,

Jeff (00:48:41):

And what’s  she's asking to do, asking him to do is really tough because what she's asking him to do is be like, you're gonna give up the entire stadium. Yeah. To the Man, I guess it's the Man City team. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> like 10,000 like, I don't know if you've ever been in a stadium, but it is like, you know, when the opposing team has taken over to stadium, but it insulting it's so insulting

Dimple (00:49:08):

And demoralizing.

Jeff (00:49:10):

Yeah. Demoralizing. When I was there with the, I think it was the 49ers vs the Giants, like a playoff game and Giants fans like took over a significant amount of it. It was just like, it's just, it's, it's sad.

Dimple (00:49:23):

Yeah. And

Jeff (00:49:23):

Especially when you're losing. Yeah. Especially when you're losing. And then that means like tens of thousands of people are gonna hurt after the game. And he's basically being like, the players are hurt. Ted's hurt. Diamond dogs are hurt, I'm hurt, you know, the whole community's gonna be hurt and you're still gonna do this just to get back at this one guy. Like it's never gonna,

Dimple (00:49:49):

Right. And you're not gonna, you're not gonna take away your pain at the end of the day. Yes. Like even through all of this, you are still gonna be in pain at the end of it, because this is not the way to, like, you may in the moment feel a little, like yeah. You felt a spark of joy when Ted put Rupert in his place. Like that felt great, but guess what? It didn't fix it because otherwise you wouldn't still be here trying to continue doing this. Right. And so mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. Oh, so good. So good. Um,

Jeff (00:50:21):

And then any such a powerful scene, because then at the very end, right. If like the theme of insane, radical honesty, and like the calling out of BS is he leaves and then you think he's coming back, but it's not it's Keeley. And she's now calling her out on her BS from like way back at the beginning and just being like, our whole relationship has been a lie. And I think Keeley is also now so affected by that because also that's what, that's something Jamie would've done. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> like, that's a Jamie type thing of like lying the whole time, you know? And it's just like, Ugh.

Dimple (00:51:05):

Well, and going back to this idea of like, can I take you at your word? Like I thought we're friends, you're giving me these amazing opportunities. And now I find out that you actually set me up to, you know, to hurt me at some point. Right. And so, yeah. Um, so,

Jeff (00:51:26):

So then it challenges her at that point as like the, the, you know, the episode ends where again, she has to be like, okay, what am I gonna do? Like, do I want to continue to be old me or new me? You know, because new me like means that I have to own up to my own radical honesty about what I've been doing with the team this entire time. And then you're like, oh, is she gonna do she gonna say something? She's not gonna say, then you're like, oh, I don’t know

Dimple (00:51:56):

Such a good episode. So one thing, the one thought that came to mind as <laugh>, I was driving the other day and I had this moment where I was listening to a story on, uh, BBC. And it was about this, uh, this snowboarding company, I think they're called Burton. And they're like an American snowboarding company and they're in, um, Xinjiang, China. And that's like this, the place where all the Uyghurs used to live and the Uyghurs are like this persecuted ethnicity. Right. And it was a phenomenal interview because the guy they interviewed, he was like, I dunno if he was the CFO, CEO or something. Um, and the, the journalist was like, well, I mean, are you aware of like the human rights abuses happening here? Blah, blah, blah. And the guy was just like, well, you know, I just, I divorced myself from all of that because, you know, and the guy was like, what? Like, you know, your website says that you guys are trying to promote like positive change in the world, blah, blah, blah. Like, don't you think you have a responsibility to like, help change things instead of like promoting, you know, cause they're kicking people out of there to make it a snowboarding destination.

Jeff (00:53:10):

Oh

Dimple (00:53:10):

And well, the Uyghurs were persecuted way before that, like that's a whole separate thing. Yeah. But like, but it's

Jeff (00:53:17):

Worse now because now you're doing it for like entertainment. So it's just bad. Yeah.

Dimple  (00:53:26):

Yeah. And the, the guy was just like, well, you know, like we don't always know, like what's exactly true. And like, and the guy was like, there's documented cases of what's happened there. And this guy would just not own up to it. And I, I was sitting there in the car just fuming as I'm listening to this. And I had that moment of where I was like, oh man, like what would Ted Lasso do here? And then I was like, why have we not been doing this this way the whole time, instead of like trying to pick a lesson and trying to apply it, like, why aren't we just looking for these? Like what, what would Ted Lasso do moments in our life? And then thinking about all the lessons that we've, you know, seen along the place. So anyway, so for any listeners, uh, our system is evolving a bit <laugh> as we like learn and learn this a little bit more, but, uh, but yeah, like I really had that moment and I was really thinking about like, you know, to completely disregard the persecution of an entire group of people for profit mm-hmm <affirmative> it just, it makes me so ill.

Dimple (00:54:31):

And, and I was thinking like, okay, so like what would a Ted Lasso do in that situation? Right. And to me, like, it's, it's a lot of what we just talked about, you know, in terms of owning up to, Hey, we, we recognize this is happening. What role do we have? What responsibility do we have as, you know, a company that can affect change in this region? How do we do that? How do we connect with people? How do we work? You know, with the government to try to like figure out how to make change. How do we say no, we're not gonna support this, right? Yeah. Like I feel like those are the kinds of questions Ted would be asking. He wouldn't just be, um, I mean, he's not ever gonna be like profit oriented or whatever, like the fact that again, he wants to make his, it's not about the [inaudible]. It's about making people the best versions of themselves.

Jeff (00:55:24):

That's so interesting. You'd say that because I think of, um, I'm about to make a TikTok video about this, but like I had mentioned this, a few episodes earlier, this, this guy Vishal Garg from Better.com Oh yeah. Um, guard from better off all these people by Zoom. Right. They had him almost resign, like just stepped down. Well, he's coming back. They brought him back

Dimple (00:55:46):

Oh he is?

Jeff (00:55:46):

That. They brought back the board, brought him back. And I don't know if the board brought him back because they just didn't have the power to get rid of him or they, but whatever the case may be, it's a perfect example. Just like Rebecca, right. Where they're bringing this person back, that's going to negatively affect thousands of people that work for the company, as well as everyone else that has been laid off for the company. You know? And because like, again, it's about like the win it's about the lacking of curiosity. It's about like, not addressing like the bigger issue, because they don't wanna be honest about it. And they just like, we'll just avoid it and just bring this person back. Not know, or they must know, but that it's gonna destroy everything else that has been built in this organization. And the company's called better.com.

Dimple (00:56:36):

I know. Well, they're probably banking on the fact that most people don't have the privilege to walk away from a job and that they'll stay in it. Like the people who can, will probably leave. But bill,

Jeff (00:56:47):

What's interesting about that point though, that you say then is like, think about the people that will stay and think about the people that will leave. So all of the great people that are there because they believed in better.com will be gone. Yeah. And it will be a shell of its former self hundred percent. And that's kinda like, that's kind of how, like I see like Rupert and Rebecca, when they're leaning in that, you know, negative space that they're, they're, they're making Richmond a shell of what it used to be or what it could be.

Dimple (00:57:21):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah, for sure. Oh, so much that, uh, these private sector companies could learn from lasso.

Jeff (00:57:32):

Anything that you're gonna be inspired to do this week and take on from the perspective of what would Ted Lasso do?

DImple (00:57:40):

Well, so I'm actually gonna just stay open. I'm going to actually be a lot more intentional about noticing when scenarios come up and asking myself that question to say, oh, well what would Ted Lasso do in this situation? Because I think that there are, look, we've covered so many like different lessons now and different aspects of positive psychology and other things that I think that there are numerous times during the day, you know, whether it's in like responding to an email that is frustrating or a text message or, you know, and, and thinking about like, okay, well what would he do in this situation? Like how can I do it better be a better, better version of myself. Right? Yeah. Um, so that's, that's kinda the approach I'm gonna take moving forward because

Jeff(00:58:24):

I like

Dimple (00:58:25):

That. Yeah. Yeah. So

Jeff (00:58:27):

In, in honor of the amazing monologue, I am going to embrace my curiosity even more. I'm gonna double down on my curiosity and see where that takes me. Ooh, I'm excited.

Dimple (00:58:44):

<laugh> well, I can't wait to hear about it. So thank you. It's another fun conversation. And as always, I appreciate you. And, uh,

Jeff (00:58:54):

I appreciate you too. And thanks everyone for listening. We'll talk to you next time.

Dimple  (00:59:00):

Yeah. Thanks so much for listening of what would Ted Lasso Do. If you got any nuggets of Ted lasso wisdom from this episode, try them out in your life and let us know what happens @wwtldpodcast on Twitter, Instagram, or at our website, WW TLD podcast.com, where you'll also find the full transcript of the show. You love hearing what other Ted heads took away from the episode or details or perspectives that we might have missed.

Jeff (00:59:30):

And if you do like the show, please subscribe and head on over to Apple Podcast and leave us a five star rating. It all helps.  We don't know exactly why, but it does. So in the spirit of believing in hope, believing in believe, please help us out

Speaker 3 (00:59:48):

And thank you to Podify and Sam Davidson for producing our show to Kajal Dhabalia  for our visuals and graphics and Kenzie Slottow for our theme song. And most of all, thank you to all of you for listening.

Speaker 4 (00:59:58):

Ted lasso could simply just be another show to binge watch. Or if we challenge ourselves to consistently ask the question, what would Ted lasso do? It could change the trajectory of your life. It has for us

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):

To join us again. Next time as we explore another episode and ask ourselves, What Would Ted Lasso Do?